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Chet S's avatar

A huge difference, though, is that Jason Arday is a person who existed

Adam Rochussen's avatar

I think the historical evidence that Jesus existed is pretty strong! As far as we can be sure Aristotle existed, we can be sure Jesus did.

Chet S's avatar

Do you think the historical evidence that James Bond existed is strong?

Adam Rochussen's avatar

No. Completely retarded comparison, but I'll bite:

James Bond only exists in the writings of a single author. The stories of James Bond exist in no other records--for example, there is no other record of Blofeld existing. There is also no record of a "00" rank existing within MI6. James Bond emerged in a time with good historical documentation, so we would expect to be able to find birth certificates, employee records etc etc, but these do not exist. We can find full records of any other MI6 agent in legitimate records, but not Bond. Finally, the author of the story of James Bond is credited as a fiction writer.

On the contrary, the existence of Jesus is evidenced by a broad array of contemporary sources from Christian but also many non- and anti-Christian sources. The genre of these sources is not fiction. On the Christian side, we have Paul's letters in which he talks of his personal interaction with the brother of Jesus. He's clearly not writing with fictional intent. Then we have the annals of Tacitus which corroborates the crucifixion of Jesus by Pontius Pilate etc. Then we have "Antiquities" by the historian Josephus, who writes of Jesus and is a piece of historical literature.

The evidence could be stronger if there was hard archeological evidence. We have such evidence for Pontius Pilate being the Prefect of Judea, and of crucifixion being used on 1st Century Judea, and of the village of Nazareth existing in 1st Century. But obviously most living people at that time have no impact on the archeological record, and the same is true for Jesus.

If you're interested, you should check out Bart Ehrman's work: https://ehrmanblog.org/ and his 2012 book are a good starting place. Believing that Jesus was not a historical figure is very fringe in most scholarly circles because it's quite untenable and only really motivated by a desire to discredit Christianity. Most atheists accept the evidence as reasonable and legitimate.

Chet S's avatar
20hEdited

There’s a bunch of other records of James Bond, what are you talking about? We even have a book by his own hand:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_the_West_Indies

Note that the genre of this text is, also, “not fiction”

Believing that the author of Birds of the West Indies, who is documented to have served as inspiration for Ian Fleming’s works, didn’t even exist in history is very much a fringe position only held by those who wish to discredit MI6

Adam Rochussen's avatar

Oh that's kinda cool actually. Didn't know that's where Fleming got the name!

Chet S's avatar

Additionally about 50 different authors have produced James Bond novels (yes, starring the same fictional British spy)

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/james-bond-literary-afterlife/

Note that most of these are separated by far less time from the publishing of Casino Royale than separates the earliest mentions of Jesus from the latest “contemporary” ones

Chet S's avatar

Well, having had my fun, I don’t want to be accused of not showing my cards: I contend Jesus Christ is a fiction in the same way that James Bond is a fiction (and I agree that he is a fiction) - even though “James Bond” is a real person’s name who was known to Ian Fleming, and even though some of what Fleming wrote about had happened in reality to several people (one of whom was Fleming)

And that this comparison is actually quite apt and not at all “retarded” which hopefully you feel bad about

Kris h's avatar

My husband and I enjoy your unusual takes. 😊

Adam Rochussen's avatar

😅 I’m glad!